people. >> we're going to have to see the rates on the top two percent go up. it's not me being stubborn. it's not me being partisan. >> schieffer: the president says it's math, but is it math or politics. we'll talk with former republican senator it alan simpson, and clinton white house chief of staff, erskine bowles, who chaired the first deficit reduction commission. they're concerned about the dangers ahead. so concerned that simpson took to the dance floor to urge young people to get involved. we'll also get the take of rising democratic star cory booker, the mayor of newark. what's his answer to the washington gridlock? and is he planning a run for governor against chris christie. for analysis, we'll turn to joe klein of "time" magazine. "washington post" columnist michael gerson, and our own norah o'donnell and major garrett, our chief white house correspondent. it's all ahead on "face the nation."

captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: good morning, again. well, to the famous combos of modern life, from mac and cheese, peanut butter and jelly, rum and coke, bread and butter, and salt and pe pepper, add one more pair simpson-bowles. alan simpson may be in wyomingy and erskine bowles in north carolina but you can't mention one without think of the other. when you headed up the bipartisan deficit commission appointed by the president you laid out the dire consequences if we don't get the country back on a sound financial footing. the two sides are still at loggerheads. i guess i would start this morning by mr.-- and mr. bowles, why don't you go first-- is all

this just posture or are they really going to let us go over this fiscal cliff? >> lord, i hope not, bob. i think it would be disastrous for the country if we did. you know, you can look at the forecast that we have, economic growth would slow, you know, by 4%. that, by definition, puts you back into recession when you're only growing by 2%. about two million people would lose their jobs. unemployment would go to 9%. you know, you can already see the effects of it-- you look at businesses, they're slowing their head count by atricks they're saying they're going to have to lay people off. they're going to cut their capital expenditures. they're going to cult their investments. they're already holding cash. moody's and fitch have said they would lower our credit rating. that would cause our interest rate to go up. i don't think the stock market has facted on factored this in.

i think it would be a disaster to go over the cliff. >> schieffer: what about you usenator simpson, would they really let this happen? >> when you have responsible leaders saying like this, i think it would help the democrats more if we go over the cliff. and then responsible republicans saying, i think it would help the republicans if we go off the cliff, and the administration saying i think it would help the president if we go off the cliff, and as erskin says so beautifully, you know what that's like? that's like betting your country. there's something terribly bizarre and juvenile about that, to think your party comes ahead of your country. i don't goinar at all. >> schieffer: well, do you think, senator simpson, in the end, republicans are going to have to degree to higher tax rates for the upper income people? >> i think erskine and i both agree, if anybody out there who is-- quote-- rich doesn't think their taxes go up, the drinks are on me. heil cover it.

>> schieffer: so you think they've got to do that. also, don't you think the democrats are going to have to agree to some entitlement reforms? >> sure, but you don't have to do the tax increase. you go into the tax code, and dig into those tax expenditures, but there's no time to do that. but, yes, i mean, the bizarre thing, not touching the entitlements. the entitlements are the engine on the train driving us to the cliff. they were on automatic pilot. health care, it doesn't matter what you call it, is on automatic pilot responsible and it's going to squeeze out all the discretionary think about-- defense, r&d, research, all the things you love. erskine and i always say, what do you love? and they name something and we say forget it because this is wiping everything. it's just a destructive force. no cost containment till down the road. >> schieffer: sore erskine bowles, what this shea do, what is the next thing that should

happen to get this result? >> i'm a little more encouraged than i would have been if you had asked me about it a week ago. we were going through the kabuki theater, one side making an offer and the other side rejecting it. that's natural in any deal. any time you have two guys in there tangoing you have a chance to get it done. first of all, most important thing is if we're going to raise revenue and if we're going to raise it in any form, then we darn well better cut spending because spending is the biggest part of this problem, and the biggest part of that problem is the fact that health care is growing at a faster rate than g.d.p. i think we made some progress this week, bob. i'm more encouraged than i was-- let me tell you why. first of all, you know, the president has been clear that he's not going to support a deal that doesn't have an increase in tax ratees, but he came right back and said he also believed that he's got into get into negotiations with chairman camp,

with senator bacchus, in order to broaden the base and simplify the code, and hopefully bring down rates next year. he said he's got flexibility on raising more money by cutting the entitlements. the speaker, i think this is a speaker who really gets it. he's put $800 billion worth of tax cuts on the table, but if you look at the offer he made last week, that offer doesn't mention a thing about, you know, block granting medicaid. it doesn't have a word about premium supports. it doesn't have anything in there about the deep cuts in the income-support programs. so i think that vpses th advances the ball. you look at the people on the periphery, what they're saying. you have dick durbin, who is very close to the president, saying, he can live with means testing medicare. he said he doesn't like it, but he can live with it. that's high on the list of things that leader macomedy has said he's got to have to have a

deal. and even nancy pelosi has said, look, this is not about rates. it's about revenue. it's about getting the money we need in order to reduce these deficits. so you've got to have spending cuts and you've got to have some revenue to get this done. >> schieffer: let me ask senator simpson. the "new york times" crunched numbers for the tax inn creases for the wealthy and determined even if the rates go back up to the clinton-era rates it would only give us about a quarter of the needed revenue. so what other things can be done? what other taxes have to be raised or where do you get the money to get us to where we need to be? >> well, you go into the tax code, as i say, but it's going to take too much time to do that. but there is no possibility to do this, not a single economist who talked to us in our hearings, said we can't grow our way out of this thing if we had double-digit growth for 20 years. you can't cut spending your way out of this baby or you're going to are yo ruin a very fragile

economy and an emerging and helpful nation and you can't tax your way out of this baby. this is impossible. and when these people zero in-- as erskine said they zero in on taxes, taxes, taxes, we said you've got revenue one to four, three times spending cuts versus one of revenue, but you go into the code and like this one, you go to home mortgage interest deduction and the housing industry guys, all the lobbyists go nuts. we said, look, we're not going to take it away from you but it doesn't need to be a million buck on a second home. we said take it to 500,000, give everybody a 12.5% nonrefundable tax credit which helps the little guy. and they go, "oh, yeah, i guess that might work." everybody is in the game. this will be savagery, full-page ads, ladies, old charge, veterans, simpson-bowles are doing their tricks out there. hang on tight. it's going to be a real, real

struggle. >> schieffer: let me just ask you, you caught a lot of people's attention, including ourselves last week, when you did this video on internet to try to get young people-- >> eskind, will you quit laughing. i can hear efers kin hear erskine laughing. >> stop instagramming your breakfast and tweeting your first world problem and getting on youtube so you can see gangnam style. and start using those precious social media skills to sign people up on this baby. >> schieffer: all right, so what is-- >> it is great, isn't it? >> schieffer: what were you telling young people they need to be doing, senator? >> oh, oh, i'll tell you, i-- i don't want to drag erskine down into the deposition, into the

pits of despair. >> i'm with you, pal. >> aarp and the senior groups in this country will have stripped the treasury dry in 30 years, and these young people can't figure it out. it's not because they want to. it's just the demographices, 10,000 a day turning 65, no anunc testing, no nothing. a guy gets a heart operation for 200,000 bucks. he could buy your building and doesn't even get a bill. who is kidding who? i said to those young kids get off your can, and they invented the phrase-- they're tired of seeing the can kicked down the road because when they conflict can down the road they're the ones who are going to get it kicked right in the fanny. eskind and i tried to help them, so if this has helped them, and take on the sob sisters saying we're trying to ruin all the old people in america, get serious. if humor will do that, i think that's great. nobody has any humor in

washington. there ain't none left. >> schieffer: mr. bowles, what are you saying to your party about the need for entitlement reform? that's where the resistance is coming from. it's coming from the democrates, not republicans. >> absolutely, bob. i love alan. he's an american treasure. but, look, even if you raise the top rates back to the clinton rates, that only creates about $400 billion over 10 years. that's $40 billion a year. we have a tron dollar a year deficit. that aloneuent solve the problem. we have to cut spending. health care in this country, we spend twice as much on health care as any other developed nation, and that's whether it's percent of g.d.p. or on a per-capita base. we have to slow the growth of health care to the rate of the economy. the president put $350 billion worth of cuts on the table. that's not enough. we're going to have to do more. we may not like it. you know, we may wish we

didn't. we simply made promises we can't keep. we've got to face up to it. and we've got to have a bold decision in order to make sure we put our fiscal house in order. >> schieffer: do you both-- and this is the last question-- do you honestly believe we're going to get some-- resolve this in some way by the end of the year, or will it go into next year? senator simpson? >> well, i-- i-- i'm an optimist. i think they'll do, some but if they do small ball, that won't work. the markets aren't going to listen to that. but the horrible part about all this business is when you're addicted to debt, 16 trillion bucks and you're in the hole, 1 trillion, and the markets are going to jump in, and nobody will know when that is. the tipping point was always described by dick durbin, when will it happen? but when it happens, interest rates will go up, inflation will go up, and the guy that gets hurst the worst is the little

guy. what hypocrisy, what fakery. >> schieffer: mr. bowles? >> they absolutely can do it. if they don't do it, shame on them. >> schieffer: thank you both for being with us this morning. we'll be back in one empty to talk to cory booker.

>> schieffer: we're back with one of the rising stars, according to democrats, of their party, and that is newark mayor cory booker. mr. mayor, let's just pick up on what we heard from erskine bowles and alan simpson. what are your constituents talking about? what are they telling you about this? how does this look from outside washington? >> well, i think there's an immediate fear. there are a lot of people, a couple of thousand dollars, which most americans will see their tax goes up, if we don't do something about this. for many families, not only in

my city, but across our state, a couple of thousands dollars could be the difference between making that mortgage payment, being able to afford food and making critical investments during every month. the desire for washington to figure this out, and not to cause more harm, like they did during the last debt ceiling debate is absolutely krusk. this is not time for the republicans to hold the country hostage again, really at this point, holding it hostage to protect a couple of percent of our population. >> schieffer: well, i mean, the democrats -- there's got to be some give in there from democrats as well? >> i think you're absolutely right. something frightening to me mee which the two gentlemen mentioned. i have seen health care costs mushroom in this country and have seen the impact on the community like mine. it is projected to go to 20% of g.d.p. we have to do things controlling these costs, or forget event next 10, 20 years we'll see america's global economic decline. they're absolutely right about

the urgency. but i think the president really has a balanced approach to this. we have to get through this current challenge we're in. zitranquil economy. this is not a time for draconian cut. that will undermine the economic growth in the long term. this is not a time to be penny eyes and pound-foolish. we just sought worst natural disaster to come through new jersey in a very long time. and it really exposed how vulnerable and h1n1 prepared our infrastructure is in this country. and you have storm systems and even heavy rainfalls right now are causes incredible economic damage. to not invest the pennies now to asset dollars later is also a bad thing to do. we've got to start getting back to a balance sheet analysis of our economy. things like social security and health care, we have to make sure we're bringing in the revenue we need and controlling and cutting costs and steering this delicate ship out of this recession, back to strong economic growth in america. >> schieffer: mr. mayor, let me ask you about this experiment, as it were, that you have embarked on over last week, and that is you went out and

what, bought, $30 worth of food at the grocery store, and this is what people on food stamps, this is all the money they would have tow buy food if they were on if food stamps. and you decided you'd do that and just see if you could live on for a week. how is it going? >> this is one of the programs right now the house is proposing to cut dramatically. the senator and the president are trying to protect it because 46 million americans benefit from food stamps. veterans, over a million victims were benefit. there are some military families, people with disabled children, families with kids, working families. and what we don't understand is we often vilify or denigrate folks. they're using a small amount of money to bridge them out of poverty or bridge them out of food insecurity. and so in a debate on twitter over social media, i was talking about why don't we do this ourselves, just really see how this program works. and i'll tell you what, my modest brush-- i'm done with this in a week, but again, millions of americans, this is

their daily challenge is finding a way to get access to healthy, nutritional foods. for me it's been very difficult. i'll be honest with you. i take so much for granted. even going to starbucks and buying a cup of coffee is more than my daily food alowps right now. we really need to expose the problems on a national level by denigrating programs that empower our country in the long run but preparing our children to learn and succeed. we can do things locally by expanding access to healthy foods, more local low grown produce. >> schieffer: tell me, for example, what do you eat in one day? what did you eat yesterday? >> at $1.fowrt a meal. i had an apple federal breakfast. i bermuda a sweet potato and couldn't go out and buy another one because it wasn't on my budget so i cut around the burned part and had a sweet potato around lurch time and made a casserole with broccoli, cauliflower, beans, and peas and nursed that over a couple hours. i found i could stave off hunger

if i ate a spoonful and came back to it. it's been very challenging. >> schieffer: i know europe a coffee drinker. have you been able to drink coffee? >> no, i'm thoroughly uncalfinated right now. and it's a terrible state of human existence. i don't see how people do it. look, this has been a difficulty for me for just one week but it's a reality for americans for months at a time. i have a social media platform called waywire, where people are posting their own experiences on this, which-- and a really amazing testimony from americans. this is a daily reality. so in this time in our country where we see a decoupling between economic growth creating wealth for some but a real decoupling as wages decline. you have families whose wage wages have frozen or dropping, still working the same amount of hours, working 22 jobs and still find themselves dependent on programs like food stamps and snap, and if we cut these programs we cast them into food

insecurity, which does have a long-term deleterious effect on our economy, especially as we send kids to school nutritionally unfit to learn and military families who sacrifice so much for us and veterans coming home. >> schieffer: we do need to take little politics. are you thinking about running against chris christie for governor? >> yeah, i am absolutely considering running for govern governor, as well as giving other options some consideration. i'll be focused on that the next week to 10 days or so and really come up with a decision that answers my basic question which is where do i believe-- and hopefully later the voters will agree with me-- where can i make the biggest difference for the city i love and the nation i pledged my life to. >> schieffer: when do you think you will make a final decision? >> it has to be in the next few weeks. especially in new jersey, there are a lot of very good candidates for governor in new jersey on the democratic side and i have to give my party and be a part of my party's push forward, whether me as a candidate or supporting other candidates for that office.

>> schieffer: if you decide not to run for governor, is there any chance you might run for another office, say senate, for example? >> yeah, i'm actually, look at that a lot as well, and trying to get back. life, ultimately, is not about a position. it's about a purpose. and my purpose they try to focus on every single day is how can i make a difference in the world around me in the community around me? i'm thinking about both offices right now and which one can i better serve on the issues i'm passionate about anded the things they feel driven to contribute to. >> schieffer: all right, well, governor, i hope you'll get to have a cup of cove here before too much longer. >> you just made a bad mistake that might get me in trouble, but thank you very much. >> schieffer: i'll be right back with personal thoughts about a missed opportunity in the senate this week. all energy development comes with some risk, but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment.

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>> schieffer: someone asked me the other day has washington changed? and i said were you around when they passed the americans with disabilities act in 1990. it passed overwhelmingly ending discrimination in the workplace and opening access to the disabled to public buildings. when george bush signed it into law, it made you proud, whether you were a democrat or republican, a politician or one of the rest of us. >> this historic act is the world's first comprehensive declaration of equality for people with disabilities. >> schieffer: but that was then, and this is now. >> the resolution for ratification is not agreed to. >> schieffer: partisanship runs so deep when an international treaty that callologist other countries to provide the same right to their

disabled came to the senate for ratification, conservative republicans blocked it, blocked it despite a dramatic appeal by 89-year-old former republican leader bob dole, himself a disabled world war ii veteran. and even though their usual allies the chamber of commerce and veterans groups wanted it. opponents gave various reasons, arguing the treaty might prevent parents from home schooling. it doesn't. i didn't hear many say, though, how proud blocking it made them feel. some just seemed embarrassed. has washington changed? maybe i'm wrong, but in bob dole's day, i think senators would have found a way to get it done. back in a minute. for an idea. a grand idea called america. the idea that if you work hard, if you have a dream,

if you work with your neighbors... you can do most anything. this led to other ideas like liberty and rock 'n' roll. to free markets, free enterprise, and free refills. it put a man on the moon and a phone in your pocket. our country's gone through a lot over the centuries and a half. but this idea isn't fragile. when times get tough, it rallies us as one. every day, more people believe in the american idea and when they do, the dream comes true. we're grateful to be a part of it.

bp has paid overthe people of bp twenty-threeitment to the gulf. billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. >> schieffer: and some of our stations are leaving us now, but for most of of you we'll be right back with our political panel. so stay with us on "face the nation." ,,,,,,,, ,,

>> hello everyone, i'm jamentse brown. for the second time in eight days, tragedy has struck in the nfl, this time in dallas. yesterday morning, cowboys nose tackle josh brent was charged with intoxication manslaughter after his vehicle flipped over and caught fire, killing his passenger, teammate jerry brown jr. >> when our officers got there, they made contact with mr. price brent. our officers also located a